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Pay It Forward - 7/17/2013 11:43:06 AM   
TheKingfish

 

Posts: 474
Joined: 9/27/1999
From:
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First time post in this forum, although I am a regular on the
College Football side.  Even though most
of us require the services of an off-shore book, the subject fails to get the
scrutiny it deserves.  There is little consumer
advice available, coupled with the harsh reality that these entities are beyond
the reach of U.S. law.  In the end that
makes us all excruciatingly powerless and vulnerable.  Since we’re on the cusp of yet another football
season, I share my limited experience in the hope of assisting others.



BET ONLINE   Now
mercifully severed, I was with BO for four years (2009-12).  In the early going I had a declining balance,
so no real administrative issues came to light. 
Once the money bubbled upward (mid 2011), the trouble began.  Accurate information was a moving target and direct
communication (email/chat) was a train wreck.



You probably know the final-payout drill from others – one
infuriating barrier after another.  For
me it went nine (9) weeks.  I can tell
you, no one appreciates that kind of non-reciprocal trust.  Bottom line -- spare yourself the torture of
BO.



LEGENDS (defunct)   When
undertaking a new book, like many I consult the SBR rating.  This rating seems to be a reasonable measure
of historical issues but it is not a gauge of stability.  SBR’s compromised integrity related to
advertizing is also a concern.  I joined this
outfit in August 2012; they held the highest rating (A+) but folded just eight
months later.  My balance was subsequently
forwarded to WagerWeb (C+) and slapped with a 10x rollover requirement before a
withdrawal can be made.  I certainly didn’t
sign up for that last August.



SPORTSINTERACTION  (B+,
2010-2012)   Good betting mechanism; terrible interface for
scrolling and gathering lines.  First withdrawal
was slow due to personal ID processing.  Most
recent withdrawal took 47 days.  Was
totally irked by the latter treatment, but am considering staying with them (the
devil you know).



HERITAGE  (A, 2011-present)
 Saved the best for last.  Good interface.  Good customer service.  Two withdrawals were prompt and without drama.  A distressing $50 check-send fee is imposed,
but this can be mitigated by the bonus. 
A recommend.



Having played the off-shore game since the nineties, my
general advice is to assume nothing in dealing with these outfits.  Ask a lot of questions via documented email
and always be satisfied that you fully-know their requirements (however unlikely).  Use chat only for lightweight informational
items and never (never) show a loss of temper in dealing with them.  The last is much harder said than done.



Beyond that, all you have to worry about is their collapse
and the near-certainty of losing your money if that happens.  The inescapable reality is, in this highly unprotected
environment you gamble not once…….but twice.



Nonetheless, come mid August I renew my familiar cycle of sending
money to strange-names and far-away places via Western Union -- and crossing my
fingers.  My personal goal is to add one
new (quality) book this year.  Your
shared thoughts are appreciated.

Good luck,

TheKingfish



Post #: 1
RE: Pay It Forward - 8/5/2013 12:43:28 PM   
TheKingfish

 

Posts: 474
Joined: 9/27/1999
From:
Status: offline


No reply posts over several weeks, so assume I represent the
minority on this subject – a wanderer in the desert.  Current SBR ratings suggest there aren’t many
upper-echelon houses taking US players. 
One is Bovada (A), which I am considering.



I don't like that they are the former BoDog (Dec/2011), but
only because I recollect some past negative karma.  I do like the Quebec location and that they
seemingly only take US players (???).  I personally
prefer deposits via what they offer (WU wire) and their check-withdrawal fee is
priced right ($0 once per month).  Of
course, one never knows until you wade on into the big muddy.



Withdrawal and deposit policy sells me (in that order), as
the inveterate bonus regimen serves only as a small sweetener.  Am leaning toward these folks for about 20%
of my action in 2013 but would like a bit more feedback.  Any personal insight or experiences to share?  Thanks.

Good luck,

TheKingfish




(in reply to TheKingfish)
Post #: 2
RE: Pay It Forward - 8/11/2013 5:23:17 PM   
webman


Posts: 1647
Joined: 10/4/1998
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Hard times for everyone.  Good article from a few months ago:

http://linemakers.sportingnews.com/sport/2013-04-24/offshore-sports-books-arrests-indictment-legends-spiros-athanas-wsex-schillinger



(in reply to TheKingfish)
Post #: 3
RE: Pay It Forward - 8/11/2013 10:07:57 PM   
sportspicks


Posts: 13865
Joined: 10/25/2001
From: Massachusetts
Status: offline
Kingfish,

When I have sometime, I'll talk sportsbooks with you.  Sorry just saw this.


How you left 5 Dimes off the list curious!


Also the Wagerweb rollover got knocked down from 10x.  Having said that, I would not go back.


Andrew



(in reply to webman)
Post #: 4
RE: Pay It Forward - 8/12/2013 3:56:58 AM   
TheKingfish

 

Posts: 474
Joined: 9/27/1999
From:
Status: offline


Andrew,

Thanks for the feedback; much appreciated.  Not sure what you meant by the comment -- Wager
Web rollover down from 10x.  Please
clarify.  There’s precious little information
on the industry, so I just soak up what I can.



5 Dimes was attractive in my research but two things came to
light.  They have numerous outlets (high
brow >>> low brow) and I’m not sure that’s a good thing.  And the dagger for me; it appears they do not
accept wire deposits (WU).  This illustrious
industry does not instill confidence, so I personally shy from credit card use.  A card also leaves a trail that I find
disconcerting.  And I have found the
cashier’s check route to be an expensive hassle.

Good luck,

TheKingfish




(in reply to sportspicks)
Post #: 5
RE: Pay It Forward - 8/13/2013 12:24:49 PM   
sportspicks


Posts: 13865
Joined: 10/25/2001
From: Massachusetts
Status: offline
Kingfish,


The Wagerweb rollover for Legends refugees (I had a good sum there) got reduced to 5x from 10x.  It is still the latter in the casino.

I'm not sure what you mean by the numerous outlets for 5 Dimes.  I guess I do...what they have are some offshoots like Island casino and a few others, all highly rated fwiw.  Is that what you're speaking of?


5 Dimes does take WU and MG.  Been there done that.


http://www.5dimes.eu/PopUpsFromChart/persontoperson.html



(in reply to TheKingfish)
Post #: 6
RE: Pay It Forward - 8/13/2013 12:33:29 PM   
sportspicks


Posts: 13865
Joined: 10/25/2001
From: Massachusetts
Status: offline
Kingfish,
I reread your post.

In short, 5 Dimes, Bookmaker and Heritage are the only 3 I trust (for US players).  We can find faults with all 3 (Bookmaker's 20 cent baseball lines and high withdrawal fees for one), but these books give you the best chance to be paid, imo.



(in reply to sportspicks)
Post #: 7
RE: Pay It Forward - 8/13/2013 12:35:26 PM   
sportspicks


Posts: 13865
Joined: 10/25/2001
From: Massachusetts
Status: offline
I think once February 2014 hits (the end of football season), you'll see another weeding out of the books which I hope is the bottom for the industry.  I hope I'm right/wrong.


(in reply to sportspicks)
Post #: 8
RE: Pay It Forward - 8/22/2013 7:52:17 AM   
TheKingfish

 

Posts: 474
Joined: 9/27/1999
From:
Status: offline
Andrew,
Thanks for your feedback on Wager Web.  And yes, I was referring to those multiple outlets associated with 5 Dimes; I just don't understand why they need so many.  Nonetheless, I will verify the WU wire policy and possibly sign up with them based on your endorsement (no responsibility assigned, given the fragile nature of all).  Thanks.
Good luck,
TheKingfish



(in reply to sportspicks)
Post #: 9
RE: Pay It Forward - 9/1/2013 11:01:20 AM   
sportspicks


Posts: 13865
Joined: 10/25/2001
From: Massachusetts
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: TheKingfish

Andrew,
Thanks for your feedback on Wager Web.  And yes, I was referring to those multiple outlets associated with 5 Dimes; I just don't understand why they need so many.  Nonetheless, I will verify the WU wire policy and possibly sign up with them based on your endorsement (no responsibility assigned, given the fragile nature of all).  Thanks.
Good luck,
TheKingfish





How have you been making out?

(in reply to TheKingfish)
Post #: 10
RE: Pay It Forward - 9/12/2013 9:06:10 PM   
TheKingfish

 

Posts: 474
Joined: 9/27/1999
From:
Status: offline


Andrew,

Apologies for the delay in my response.  My off-shore situation has been rather fluid
(decisions & developments) so thought I’d wait until my 2013 standing stabilized.  Below is my current take:



BOVADA(A)  Quebec.  Originally thought this would
be a new book for me this year but it didn't pan out.  They have a 30-day
Free Play bonus that’s not terribly attractive; also no early lines and gaps in
the game rotation (line absent).  Overall
they remain a future option.  I have friend with them starting this year,
so will see.  They’re big enough that I thought
a few players would register their experience on this forum.  Are you folks out there?  If so, please weigh in.



SPORTSINTERACTION(B+)  Montreal.  With them since 2010.  Was
recently informed that US players are no longer welcome.  They cited a US
money-processing problem but suspect it’s a conscious decision to withdraw.  I’m figuring the same US government pressure
that has shrunk this market.



WAGER WEB(C+)  Costa Rica.  Brand new this year; assumed in the off
season by the collapse of Legends(A) with existing money transferred.  Am
hoping my inevitable lost-wagers happen here, as extracting 'winnings' might be
difficult.   Confirmed your existence
of the 5X magnitude rollover.  Dealings
with them good so far, although my server (AT&T) seems to be blocking their
emails to me.



5DIMES(A+)  Costa Rica.  As you said, they do take wire deposits.  And brand new for me this year, thanks to
your recommendation.  As a new player I opted for their Reduced Juice
program, as opposed to the Bonus program.  The latter is a hassle and
potentially a non-perk if you win the funky Free Play wagers.  However,
the RJ looks like a powder-puff promo; offered on just four college games this
week.  Like Heritage below, this outfit
has year-end withdrawal fees.



HERITAGE(A)  Costa Rica.  Still my best most-reliable book, based on
administrative use and past dealings since 2011.  Got an 8% bonus this
year requiring a 4X rollover.  A small off-season appreciation-reward was also
credited to my account, so they seem to be trying.  They also offer permanent
discounted juice (-108), which is a genuinely nice perk.



Again, I hope my input helps.  I welcome all posts here, figuring any kind
of an info-collective serves us all.

Good luck,

TheKingfish




(in reply to sportspicks)
Post #: 11
RE: Pay It Forward - 7/15/2014 9:01:49 PM   
TheKingfish

 

Posts: 474
Joined: 9/27/1999
From:
Status: offline


Just thought I’d refresh this topic and input my 2013
experience.  With yet another football season
upon us, I share my singular experience hoping it adds to the collective.



WAGERWEB  (C+, 2013)   The SBR rating for these guys is less than
stellar, but one always wonders about the veracity of that.  Nonetheless, my experience here was good;
they seemed professional and were responsive. 
My account went to zero, so I did not have a withdrawal episode with
them.



SPORTSINTERACTION 
(2010-2013)   I played here in 2013
but they involuntarily cashed me out at season’s end, consistent with their policy
to purge US players.  I really wish the UK/Commonwealth
books had an open-door like in the old days. 
As legitimate/regulated business they are so much more secure and
worry-free.



5 DIMES  (A+,
2013)   Good interface; good wagering
experience.  A $40 withdrawal fee is policy,
but for my one withdrawal none was imposed. 
A recommend.



HERITAGE  (A, 2011-2013)   Continued good interface and good customer
service.  My withdrawals here are prompt
and smooth.  A $50 withdrawal fee is
imposed, but this can be mitigated by the bonus rewards.  A strong recommend.



So again I am on the cusp of that familiar cycle, of sending
money to far-away places via Western Union -- and crossing my fingers.  My goal is to add one new (quality) book this
year if possible.  If you have one to recommend,
please share.  Thank you.

Good luck,

TheKingfish




(in reply to TheKingfish)
Post #: 12
RE: Pay It Forward - 7/21/2014 9:41:37 PM   
vern

 

Posts: 5630
Joined: 3/17/2004
From: Austin
Status: offline
Why no local? U pay8 points sending Wu& a fee to get ur $? Much better off with2-3 locals IMO. I only use one, legit, will take all ill bet, never an issue. Lines are close enough.

What am I missing?

(in reply to TheKingfish)
Post #: 13
RE: Pay It Forward - 7/31/2014 12:55:29 PM   
TheKingfish

 

Posts: 474
Joined: 9/27/1999
From:
Status: offline


Vern,

Why no locals?  Well,
locals can be a luxury depending on your geography.  I had a single local outlet many years ago
and had trouble on the season-end collection side.  That was no picnic.  Now to be fair, this guy wasn’t exactly a member
of the Chamber of Commerce (no good-citizen awards).  I might be able to scrounge one local but to
have more than that for competitive reasons would be a real challenge.



I guess you can count yourself lucky on the administrative
front (no off-shore linkage), but I’m assuming you are not in the majority.  I’m still looking for any recommends out there,
with time growing short to pack off my precious money. 
Thanks.

Good luck,

TheKingfish




(in reply to vern)
Post #: 14
RE: Pay It Forward - 7/31/2014 8:28:45 PM   
lynchda


Posts: 3707
Joined: 9/25/2006
From: Southwick, MA
Status: offline
Hey Kingfish,

I just tried to open an account with Heritage. I filled out the entire form and hit the Submit button and nothing happened. Tried with Chrome and IE browsers - nothing.

They do say have the disclaimer shown below on their front page so I guess you need an invite to join. Just thought I'd pass that along. Thanks for your insight.

Dave


We make our sign up page available to invited members. If you have received a current Heritage offer or promotion, please complete the sign up page to begin your Heritage experience. If you do not appear on our invited guest list a new account will not be generated.

(in reply to TheKingfish)
Post #: 15
RE: Pay It Forward - 8/8/2014 10:19:33 PM   
sportspicks


Posts: 13865
Joined: 10/25/2001
From: Massachusetts
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: lynchda

Hey Kingfish,

I just tried to open an account with Heritage. I filled out the entire form and hit the Submit button and nothing happened. Tried with Chrome and IE browsers - nothing.

They do say have the disclaimer shown below on their front page so I guess you need an invite to join. Just thought I'd pass that along. Thanks for your insight.

Dave


We make our sign up page available to invited members. If you have received a current Heritage offer or promotion, please complete the sign up page to begin your Heritage experience. If you do not appear on our invited guest list a new account will not be generated.



They do not accept U.S. players anymore.  Current U.S. players can stay.

(in reply to lynchda)
Post #: 16
RE: Pay It Forward - 8/22/2014 12:37:54 PM   
TheKingfish

 

Posts: 474
Joined: 9/27/1999
From:
Status: offline


Regarding Heritage. 
A good book, but that invite may be essential.  Mine came when BetJamaica shuttered to US
players.



Consistent with the enduring subject line, I’m adding a
small tip related to the funding process; something to watch out for.  If you do WU wires, watch out for the receive
limit imposed by the local agent you use. 
I had an amount (X) sent that was later refunded to me because WU
suspected the off-shore book’s receiver of fraud.  WU provided an authorization code for me to
receive the refund.  However when I went
back to the original agent, they refused to process that same-amount refund saying
it was above their receive limit (X-500). 
What?  That’s tantamount to purchasing
spoiled milk and the store offering only a partial refund.



At that point you’re forced to shop around for an entirely
different WU agent, one that will process your original amount.  That can be difficult.  In future I’d like to see the archaic WU model
dispatched by something more relevant. 
That something could be TransferWise, a new Internet based business.  For that to happen of course, off-shore would
need to embrace.

Good luck,

TheKingfish




(in reply to sportspicks)
Post #: 17
RE: Pay It Forward - 11/19/2014 12:31:19 PM   
PLAYER

 

Posts: 4640
Joined: 10/25/1999
From: LV NV
Status: offline
=??????????????

would ANYONE go OFFSHORE??????,,,,2000 HORROR stories for ANY one good story you might get,,,,LICENSE to STEAL,,,,

TOO many OTHER options in THIS country,,made a LOTTA mistakes in this 'BIZ,,,,,BUTT:  not THAT one,,,




_____________________________

PLAYERS LAW

NO ONE HAS WHAT THEY WANT

NO ONE WANTS WHAT THEY HAVE

(in reply to TheKingfish)
Post #: 18
RE: Pay It Forward - 8/29/2015 1:26:08 PM   
TheKingfish

 

Posts: 474
Joined: 9/27/1999
From:
Status: offline

With 2015 football just around
the corner, I’m posting a brief annual update on my experience.  I have two off-shore books (Heritage & 5Dimes),
both of which have served me well.  It seems
that Heritage is by invite only (???), with mine coming several years ago when
BetJamaica shuttered to US players.



Heritage has newly offered
BitCoin as a vehicle for deposits.  It
comes with a (large) 100% bonus, but also a 20x rollover.  I was told the account transfers immediately
into USD, so no season exposure to the currency market.  And as you might know, BitCoin is especially
volatile therein.  Once in with BitCoin,
I don’t know if Heritage requires a similar type withdrawal.  That end-game could be dicey on the aforementioned
exposure side.



Normally my withdrawals come season-end
via FedEx/cashier’s check with a fee ($40) imposed by the book.  I suspect BitCoin is the more-convenient future,
so any input/thoughts on the subject would be appreciated.



I also have a near-zero account
at Wager Web (my back-up, having had personal prior good luck with them).  In the end I’m not big on bonuses/promos,
just administrative professionalism and integrity.  So I ask you to please share your positive/negative
experiences.  I don’t have a feel for any
books comparable in quality to my two, but genuinely would like to expand my
field.  Thank you.

Good luck,

TheKingfish





< Message edited by TheKingfish -- 8/31/2015 9:18:17 PM >

(in reply to TheKingfish)
Post #: 19
RE: Pay It Forward - 9/23/2015 8:06:29 AM   
I/O


Posts: 19634
Joined: 1/8/2007
From: 'human Molotov cocktail'
Status: offline
fwiw

I'm pretty sure Heritage is now taking on new clients, no referral/invite needed

_____________________________

quote:

ORIGINAL: Side Job
Well Said....

(in reply to TheKingfish)
Post #: 20
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